Chris Wild - "Turning Adversity into an Advantage"

At Drive Forward, we help care-experienced young people get into fulfilling and sustainable employment.

In this episode, we are joined by Chris Wild who generously shares his time in care, how it has shaped his career today and his involvement with the Independent Review of Children's Social Care.

Chris is an author, care home consultant, government advisor, national youth advisor for young people and charity patron.

Please note that this episode contains issues that can be upsetting to listeners. If you need support you can contact Mind.

If you want to learn more about Drive Forward check out our website.


Intro & outro music sourced from pixabay.com
Artists: Asepirawan20 & jorikbasov 

Transcript

Sareena – Drive Forward

Hello and welcome to Drive Forward Foundation's podcast, The Care Experience. Drive Forward Foundation is a charity that enables care-experienced young people to achieve their full potential through sustainable and fulfilling employment. My name is Sareena and I'm part of the Communications team here at Drive Forward. 

Today, I'll be talking to Chris Wild who is an author, care home consultant, government advisor, national youth advisor for young children and charity patron. Today will be exploring his time in care, his career path and the Independent Review of Children's Social Care. 

Listener discretion that some of the topics that we may be discussing might be of a sensitive nature. 

Without further ado, let's meet Chris. Hello. Hi, how are you?

Chris Wild

I'm very well thank you for having me.

Sareena – Drive Forward

No worries at all. It's so nice to finally meet you in person. You've been so busy!

Chris Wild

Incredibly busy, but you can't complain. It's good to be busy. Yeah.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Definitely! And that was just an impressive list of things that you're doing.

Chris Wild

And now I'm thinking, god do I do all that? 

Sareena – Drive Forward

It's on your LinkedIn profile, yeah! So let's start with the first one that you're an author, and you've got two books out currently?

Chris Wild

I do. Yes. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

Do you want to just tell us a little bit about that?

Chris Wild

Yes, of course. So my first book Damaged is a memoir of my life, they call it like a hero's journey. It talks about being brought up in the care sector as a young child, then going back into the care sector 30 years later as a professional and an adult. So it covers a lot of areas within the care sector under 16 and just about trauma, but I think when I was doing the book, it was more important for me to write about people who shaped my life. It wasn't all about poor old Chris, I talked about how lucky I was. I was one of the lucky ones and I say lucky in regards to all the other young people I was in care with. So I really delve into those characters. You know, you talk about serendipity and how people shape you and make you and that really did do that for me. 

And the second book, The State of It, is the next chapter of the care sector. It's when going to 18 to 25 provisions and just seeing that failure doesn't stop there. It's continuous and you know, we call it the care cliff where there is no end solution. It stops and it's quite a dramatic stop and you fall off the cliff and then that's it, you disappear. So it was important for me to write about that to delve into it and to really open up that topic and explain to people and educate people. People do not know what the care sector is when talking about care. They only think about old people.

They don't think about the children who are in care. 

It's important to write about that and get that message across and speak out and speak loud and more than anything, it is to give young people the confidence to speak about their own personal experiences, which for me, that is the objective.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah and that's incredible. Because I think for a lot of our young people that we work with going through the care system, in a way because they've had to deal with so many professionals, so many people there's a lot of inconsistency with the care that they're looking for, that actually they feel that they aren't heard, that they're disappearing within the system anyway. 

So to hear that we're trying to build up their confidence and try to actually we want to hear what you have to say.  I think it's really meaningful for them and it's really empowering. 

Chris Wild

Absolutely for me, you've got to champion these young people now.

And it's not about hiding away from your care experience. It's about really saying actually, I'm quite proud to be a care-experienced person. You know, we've got a lot more people coming through now on social media. You know, we've got high profiles and not just high profiles, people who have been successful like bankers, doctors, lawyers, barristers not actors and all these celebrities, but real people who have come through this and that's what we want to champion. We want to say to everyone, the next generation of care leavers, look, anything's possible. We've got your back here. Yeah, we've got our own little tribe. You know where we're going to succeed. Be proud about it, put it on your CV and go for a job interview. And say, hey, you know what, I am care-experienced. I've got a lifetime of resilience. Yes and I'm going to work hard and I'm going to show you that I'm worthy of this work. I'm worthy of the future. You know, I deserve the best opportunities in life and that's what the mission is. That's the campaign.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah and that's absolutely incredible. I think there's always one phrase that sticks with me is that talent is distributed equally, but opportunity is not. And you know, the calibre of young people that Drive Forward works with day in and day out. They've got all the skills, you've got the resilience, adaptability, team working, it's all there and all they need is a chance to shine really. 

Chris Wild

Yeah, I'm passionate about that and I travel the country and it's not geographical, you know, it's not like kids in care in London and worse off and kids in care in Hull because they're not they're on the same level. It's the same experience and those opportunities don't exist. It's about going to businesses and travelling around and holding people accountable saying to them, how many people have you got working with you with a disability? Oh three or four. How many people have you got work with you with MS? Two or three. How many care-experience people are you giving the opportunity to come and work with you? Oh I have no idea.

And that's what it's really about. Getting out and shining a light on that, you know, this is a time to really to get out there and revolutionise the care sector. We've got the movement in BAME. You know, the LGBT we should all be working together here and care experience falls into those categories, because we cover everything. So we should be on that movement too. And really fighting, you know, to get our names out there and say to everybody in the country, that care-experienced people are not broken toys. We're not fragmented. We're not used goods. This is the lexicon we hear.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, definitely. And I think a lot of our young people, for some of them, it's the stigma of being in care that it's around 60% of people who are taken into care, they are there because of like neglect and abuse and don't feel like they can share that in a working environment. So what we do at Drive Forward is, we are trying to work with our partners to train them to become care aware of actually like these are situations that our care-experienced, young people have been through, it doesn't mean they can't do the job. It just means the support and the management around them just needs to be a bit more informed. And you will get someone who's really amazing and you know, who actually change your workplace.

Chris Wild

You know, that's why we talk about protected characteristics if somebody who's in a wheelchair works for you, you know, you going to provide a ramp. It doesn't mean it can't do the job. The same with people in care. You provide that same kind of support, but it's a little bit different. Yes, you're building that support around them, but it doesn't mean they can't do the job. Then you get the return in investment because they become great employees who contribute to your company and it helps it thrive. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, definitely. And I think that for a lot of our partners when they have joined up with us, and actually just seeing that they've got the expertise, they've got the opportunities and the facilities to actually help shape young person's future. The young person leaves that space or continues working in that space. is really, really grateful. 

Chris Wild

Yeah, absolutely. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

And it doesn't take much for that to happen.

Chris Wild

No. So you've got to have empathy. And again, I think it's a valid point you've just made as well. It's about educating people on what care is because people don't know what it is. You think of care people still always you know, that's kids with black hoodies and you know, and Oliver Twist keeps coming up. And it's funny because it really isn't like that, you know, they're human beings, you know, like you and me.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Exactly. So when you were going through care, did you have any kind of hang ups on being a care-experienced young person? 

Chris Wild

Well, it was different when I was in care, because I mean, my dad died at 11. So the backstory like quickly is just I was born into a loving family. So my dad was genteel. He was kind. We were very normal in regards to working class families at that time, you know. I didn't know anybody on my street who had lost a parent or who had any kind of dysfunctional experience or trauma. 

I was the first one on my street when my dad died when our lives just turned upside down. But I didn't know anything about care. I didn't know what it meant. I never watched you know, again, I keep saying this Oliver Twist. If you said to me at 11 years old when my dad died, do you know what care is, oh isn't that what Oliver Twist is and Fagan and all that? Because that's, that's the idea or the only way I could delineate what that was. So for me, I didn't know what care was but because my home life was so dysfunctional after my dad died, my mom became an alcoholic. She met a man who became very abusive so that you know, there was a difference in that transition from being loved and nurtured and cared for, to being beaten. My sister and I, were subjected to a lot of physical abuse. It's something I've never ever experienced before and so it was a shock.

So going into care for me at first was escapism okay, it was like oh, yes, thank god. I'm away from this dysfunctional family. I didn't know what to expect. For me, it was just it was like, ah, brilliant, and I don't need to be around it anymore. I don't care if I get arrested. You know, I'm not gonna get taken back home and beat up I'm gonna get taken back to the care home and they're not going to do anything because that's their job. But unfortunately, I went into a very dangerous care home, children's home. The abuse I endured at home, prepped me to go into that care home and that might sound a bit kind of weird to say that, but to say in a positive sense, because I went in there and the second day, I was buttering some toast and answered back to the master of the house as they call him, the manager and he hit me around the ear. And I knew from that day, it was the second day, I thought, this is not a good place. This is a dangerous place, but that abuse had endured at home prepped me for that. 

Like when I talk about care and people say, what was your care experience like? Again, I didn't really feel anything at that time. It was a numb time in my life going into care for me, got me out of home, even now as an adult looking back, I think, how did I survive that?

Sareena – Drive Forward

It's really upsetting to hear that that was your experience. But it's not too far away from a lot of people's experiences. And I guess the most like upsetting thing is that the care system is there to be the answer to children who aren't getting the love and attention that they need at home. And it should be the system that nurtures them and creates independent, successful adults so that they can function in society like everybody else. But it's just not doing that.

Chris Wild 

No and that's the thing. The paradox about children's home is that they are supposed to keep you safe. Yet, you're surrounded by danger. And I always think there's lots of good care homes out there. But there is always an element of danger. Because you can't control where you're going to be, who you're going to be placed with and what's happening in the surrounding areas.

Sareena – Drive Forward

And isn't that quite difficult for you to go back into that space as a professional now?

Chris Wild

Oh, absolutely. I mean, when I started out as a professional, I went back into a children's home. The first place I went to work and it was a private children's home, and going into that home, it had an adverse effect to me going into the care home as a professional. I'd suffered a lot with depression and the first few months, I went home crying. And my wife's like, what's up, and I said, you know, I can't believe I made this commitment for the last two years and gone to college and really being passionate about going into the care sector and finding out that it's really dysfunctional. And it's brought back all my old memories of being in care. But that was a catalyst for me. It had an effect on me where I became obsessed. I became obsessed to speak up, speak out, to campaign, you know, to be really vocal about how dysfunctional it was. And it did something to me which I've never had that feeling before. That kind of motivation, where you make a conscious decision right there and then that this is your life for the rest of your life. You will not allow children to suffer like you did. And that's been my motivation. It still gets me out of bed in the morning today.

Sareena – Drive Forward

I mean, it's amazing, but almost in a way I wish it didn't have to come around in that particular way.

Chris Wild

Yeah, absolutely. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

So how did you take steps to become a care home consultant?

Chris Wild

I got very lucky. And I mean, writing the books gave me a platform, it gave me a profile. And that's not for selfish reasons, I don't want a platform. I don't want to have a profile but if it helps other people, it got me a chair around the table. It got me involved in, you know, political discussions. It got me involved in media, research. It got me involved in investigations with the BBC. 

So once I started travelling the country and collating all this information and going on TV and radio and saying, well, actually, here's some real data for you, here's some visual facts for you. It got government's attention. The Department for Education. People started contacting me and saying, well, it was Anne Longfield, who contacted me first, right when she was a Children's Commissioner, okay. And she just said, look, you know, you're doing some great work, I'd like you to come on board and help me and give us some advice and consult. 

So that's how it came about, going out there and not relying on data but visual facts, okay. Because when all the data was coming out, you know, how it works with Department for Education and government, they're very selective. So they select good homes, what's doing well, but that's not reality, is it? That's what's going on, on the streets. And I'm very much a frontline worker that I am still today. I'm out there on the streets with the young people working. So you know, that's how I became a consultant. We're going into these care homes and saying, well, actually, you're doing this wrong. I'm not happy with how this is and just been really vocal, but people respected my opinion.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, that's amazing. With the young people that we're working with, and we're obviously employment focused and we know that being in long term, stable employment is really good for mental health. Obviously, being paid and being able to pay for your bills helps. 

Did you actually have any time to think about your future when you were going through this system? 

Chris Wild

No, I didn't. I didn't even think I'd be alive, if I was honest with you. I tell this story now when I'm going to do conferences and when I speak to young people. I say at 16, I was in a bedsit eating a Pot Noodle on Christmas Day and I'm expecting people to be shocked by that. And people are like well, I’ve done that as well and I'm like, whoa, so you know what I'm talking about? That's not a nice feeling. So you don't really think about future. When you're in that situation. For me, every day was a survival. I kind of remember being on my own in a bedsit, not a flat because there was no other. There I was just in one tiny box room having a Pot Noodle thinking how did it get to this? How? But here's the thing, right? When you're that low, and you've got nothing. Nothing scares you. And that propelled me. 

I'm like, oh my god, I'm not scared of anything. I am at the lowest point in my life, and I'm alive. So for me, I started then to think about what the future could look like. And I wasn't scared to take these really bold choices, to dream big. And I'd be with my friends and say, well, I'm going to do this [They would say] oh you're a dreamer, oh you know nothing, and I'm like well actually, I'm going to give it a go. I've got nothing to lose. 

So I started to think about the future, started to think about these crazy dreams. Like I had this crazy dream that I wanted to be an actor. I was gonna go to LA (Los Angeles) and go to the best drama School in LA and I did. And it was crazy. I mean, I remember working and saving and doing everything I could to make some money then going to LAX airport on my own. Well going what are we doing here? I don't know where I'm going but I wasn't scared because I know what fear is. I've lived with fear. I've slept with fear. So getting on an aeroplane going to LA, and going into a hostel was nothing for me. It was exciting. It was a dream. It was an adventure.  And that's what the past year had prepared me for this. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

And how did that feel being on the plane or turning up at LAX? 

Chris Wild

I felt like a movie star. You know, I always felt for me, it's important to say as well, but I never met other people like me. I thought I was unique and I was an individual, that no one else suffered until I met the wider broader community. I'm there thinking oh my god. I'm not the only person who suffered like this. So I always felt like a lone wolf. You know, I just thought, well, you've got nobody, Chris, you've only got yourself. So yeah, make it happen, enjoy the moment.

I was an introvert. I became really isolated and reticent and a recluse because everybody in my life had hurt me. Love for me is something which you experience then it's taken away and then it breaks you. So being on your own and just having your own thoughts and your own feelings was again, it was refreshing. It was my serenity. So being on a plane going to LA. I just remember thinking, this is great. I'm on my own here. I'm doing something, I'm chasing my dream. You know, what's the worst case scenario? I've already been through that, and it really propelled me to dream big you know? And just turning up to LA, going into this drama school as a little cocky, white, Yorkshire man saying I want to be an actor and having an audition and getting in. If I can do that I can do anything.

Sareena – Drive Forward 

Yeah, definitely! This is what is really special about talking to young people, the ones we work with. Every time I do a podcast or I speak to them, [I ask] what is it that you want to do with your future? They always have such big dreams and the thing is this. It's not like I want to be an astronaut or a model, it's like they no, they're doing auditions, they're getting the work they need to do. There is such a drive and propulsion behind them to make their dreams come true.

Chris Wild

And I say to young people, now myself, I say dream big. Go for it, because you've got nothing to lose. And you know what it is? I think Lemn Sissay said to me, don't you think we're the special ones? Because we're the ones who managed to break free from that, you know, imagine being at home, your mum and dad and you're going through trauma and social workers don't get involved and you can't dream big. And you've got to do this. You've got to do that. And yeah, how lucky are we to be able to break free? And I was like, oh, yeah, I've never thought about it like that. 

So this is, this is an opportunity for us. And that's what it is for care-experienced people. I think you've got to really think, yes, we've all been through some horrific times and trauma, but it's an opportunity. It's not a wasted childhood. I don't want to forget about it, because use it, turn adversity into an advantage. And that's the message. When a kid comes up to me and says, “hey, I'm going to be an entrepreneur.” I say yes, you are, you know why you are? “Why? Why am I going to be?” Because you're talking about it, you can do it. You've been through this, you know what this is. So you've got nothing to lose. What's the worst case scenario? “It won't work,” exactly what will do then “I'll find another dream.” Exactly. It's great!

Sareena – Drive Forward

And that's awesome. And I think because you've been going through a system, especially now with our young people, they've had 5,6,7 social workers, it's always changing, it's really inconsistent. And they sometimes feel that you know, that their voices aren't being heard, and actually, that their dreams aren't as obtainable. But actually, when they have someone that believes in them, and it's like, yes, you can go ahead and do that. You know, you have all the skills sat there waiting, it's just an amazing transformation to see. And, you know, whether that's putting them through to like a paid internship, we've got the Civil Service open at the moment for coming into government. And so many of the young people are like "me? In government, really?" And we are like, yeah, exactly like, you are perfect, because actually, you have the most experience of government facilities and professionals.

Chris Wild

You know the dialogue, you know, you've read the book, you wrote the book. The script is yours, it's your work. And I think that's really important. It's a valid thing, you know, and people keep saying to me, when do you think we'll see dramatic change within the care sector? And I say to them, not until these young people who Drive Forward are working with and other organisations get these people into Civil Service jobs, get them into government. That's when we'll see a dramatic change. Once these people, they mature into that role, and they become senior professionals. That's when we'll see a drastic or dramatic change within the care sector. Yeah, it's for the next generation. You know, people like me and yourself and all these other people who work within this sector, is we're prepping for that we're making those foundations stable for these young people to go out there and fight for the next generation.

Sareena – Drive Forward

It's kind of inciting change and breaking the cycle that was put down before you and that's what's really special. We have the policy forum at Drive Forward. It's a place for our young people who are politically minded, who want to bring about change, who want to use their voice, to speak out on mental health, reducing the criminalisation of young people. And that's exactly what their messages are. I want to make it better for the children that are coming after them.

Chris Wild

It's such an important narrative. And I love to hear this dialogue with young people and giving them the space to explore it and debate it.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Definitely. And your experiences, your opinions and your voice are valid.

Chris Wild

Absolutely. And more so now than ever before with all these societal trends and social media. Everybody has a platform now. You can make your voice heard now. So easy. When I was a kid living in care, there was no Drive Forward. No, we had the YMCA and that was very limited, you know. So you know, I always think if I was a kid now look at all the opportunities available. Although, you know, we're still a long way off. I think we're getting very close to really creating a different generation of care leavers. And I think it's so important, you know, what Drive Forward do, I think just to have that space for these young people to really explore and nurture that talent is for me, is what we've needed for so long. And we will only get positive outcomes from now. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, definitely. And at Drive Forward, if you're a young person who's working with us, you get a dedicated Careers Advisor who works with you, gets your CV prepped, gives you that emotional boost that you need to go for jobs. You know, I wish I had someone like that!

Chris Wild

Yeah I had to go to the library! I'll tell you a quick story. When I wrote Damaged, I was unemployed, I was on the dole, and I just bought a house. My wife was pregnant, and I couldn't afford a laptop. So I used to get up at four o'clock every morning and write Damaged down on a pad with a pen and a paper. I became really disciplined. I was disciplined anyway, and I've managed to kind of make myself disciplined. For me, it was do or die. This was my only kind of option to create a life for my family.  And then it's nine o'clock, half nine when the library opened, I went down and typed it up, sent it to myself on Hotmail to save it. I did that for six months until my wife had some money to spare money to get a laptop, and we paid for it monthly.

But it reminded me of just being a kid and thinking, oh, you know, I gotta go to the library to write because we didn't have that support. And you're telling me now that you've got careers advisors and stuff like that? Wow. What an opportunity for these kids to have those resources at hand is so important, isn't it? It's the trivial things like you know, writing a CV, not having to go to library or find a laptop, you know, having somewhere to go, a careers advisor. It's so important for the development of care leavers.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, definitely. And we try and do the holistic approach as well. So if you're using our employability services, you can get a professional mentor, we've got mentors from different industries who want to work with young people and give them like, you know, the tips on how to break into the industry, which is amazing. You know, we've got exclusive employment opportunities with our partners that our young people can take advantage of, and, you know, start their career path in whichever industry that they want really and we've got counselling. 

Chris Wild

It's like care leavers have an agent. It's like you have to call Drive Forward, my agents, but that's great. Honestly, it's really refreshing to hear that.

Sareena – Drive Forward

What would you say to care leavers or care-experienced young people who are aware that these opportunities do exist, but still feel a bit hesitant to kind of fully commit or engage?

Chris Wild

Yeah, and travelling the country speaking to young people. Now a lot of them are still nervous about talking about their care experience because they think they're gonna get bullied or they think they're going to be perceived a different way. My job like yours, is going out there and making people accountable. I'm doing some work with your CEO at the moment, and Jo Carroll for the NHS and making sure that the NHS opens opportunities for kids who don't have degrees to get work within the NHS. It's really important for these young people to get advice, find people like Drive Forward, get involved and be confident about speaking up and speaking out and exploring all these different ideas. It's disheartening to have a conversation with young people, when it turns into “no one's gonna give me a job because I'm from the care sector. I don't have a degree, I don't have any GCSEs.” And it's like, that's fine. We're going to eradicate that stigma and it's so important that government support it as well. 

Again, we've got to stop talking about care like it's just a nebulous cloud. And you know, that's the idea of my work is to keep travelling the country and championing and being an advocate for these young people. And if I have to go back to the same place 100 times, just to give that person some confidence, [and to ask] what you want to do? You know, here's the details for Drive Forward. Here's the details with this, contact them, they'll give you advice, you can do this. It's so important to get that message out there. We're not at a stage right now where that information is obtainable as well. And that's another thing. It's, you know, people say where do we get information? Schools, are not putting it up there. You know, it's important when I travel around schools, it's where's all this information for care leavers?

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, definitely because I think it's still like for a lot of people who don't know about care. But you know, you don't know what you don't know.  And they're not going to think about it or have that consideration in place. So it's important that, you know, we keep talking, we keep having these conversations, our young people have the platforms to use their voice to make those changes. We have the Advantage Programme with universities that are set up to help care-experienced students. So if they need help with any studies, they can be referred to us and you know, we can support them with their degrees.

Chris Wild

You know, it's a revolution. We've been fighting 30 years for this and it has been going on for longer. But my time campaigning, I've been campaigning for 10 years. It's only in the last two years, I've seen a dramatic change. Again, we spoke previously, before we came in here about how fashionable it's become like mental health and I think about mental health. We didn't speak about mental health 30 years ago. You know, I'm gonna speak up about it. Now it's the same about care. I see so many more people saying, I'm from the care sector and I'm shocked. I had a meeting with a director from the NHS and she turned around to say, well, I was in care. Oh, but you've never mentioned it. She went I've never dared talk about it. I need you to talk about it more. I'm going to do that now. I need you to be open about that because you will help so many other young people.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Definitely we all have an impact with who we're working with who are around.

Chris Wild

 I love it when kids say to me, you were in care as well, high five! What do you do now? I do this, I've got a house, I've got three kids. Aww brilliant I want that! I say you can get it mate. You can get it. That's the greatness of it. What a nice little family we've got and we want to make a big family want to make it national family. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, that's amazing. So before your really big dream to go to LA and do drama school and things what were kind of like the jobs that you were doing to save up for that?

I did every minimal job possible. I worked in a fish shop. Alright, listen, you know, work is work. You have to respect work. But you know, I did that and worked in a building site. I would wash your car. I did everything I could. I couldn't stick a job down neither, I had these big dreams and that's another great thing. What being in care and going through all that trauma as a kid did for me, it was like I wasn't going to accept second best. I wanted to be the best. I was really competitive. I was really you know, I'm going to make it, I'm going to survive. I'm going to do this. I had that, I have that kind of momentum. 

And I did everything at the fish shop. I was the potato boy so I used to come home stinking of fish, I didn't dare get a bus. So I used to run three miles home because I didn't have a bike or anything because I was in a bedsit. So I did everything I worked on the building site, at the weekends, I would ask people if they wanted me to do jobs, go and help people move, I would do the garden, I did everything and I was never exhausted, because I had nothing. There was nothing else in my life. Remember, I didn't have a life. I went to work, I slept, I woke up, did some training. And I was obsessed with training and boxing and just like different ways to exert that negative energy because I knew if I was left in a dark space with my thoughts, that was dangerous for me, still dangerous today. So I'll keep myself proactive all the time, I say that to every young person who's listening to this, as well as keep yourself proactive. Get yourself on as many projects as you can. And you know, always surround yourself with good people, not people who are going to talk about your past and stuff. But people who are going to talk about your future. That's so important. And I've made a conscious decision as well, even when I'm out there now doing conferences is to say, you know, a lot of people want to hear that sad story. You know, poor old Chris, because it makes them feel better. You know, when you're doing a conference in the city, and you've got all these bankers listening to your story. 

And you think well, listen, I'm happy to sit here talking to you, as long as you give some care-experienced people an opportunity, but I'm not here to make you feel good. I'm here to tell you, that we're great. We are superheroes. We are survivors. We are the epitome of resilience. And anything is possible. You know, and I'd love to start talking about case files. Now a case study. 

It's not about kids who have gone missing and kids who were abused and all these kids who I know who have vanished. It's about kids who become successful now. I talked about a girl that we've been working with who's in a second year to become a lawyer and she's in Brighton. She's paying her own rent. She's doing really well. And she came from really kind of, you know, a really dysfunctional background. And I champion this girl, and I'll talk about her all the time. And you know, she invited me to Hull to listen to her do a keynote and I got involved in the keynote. And I'm so proud to stand on that stage because I've been in on that journey with her. You're going to be a lawyer. You're going to be a top lawyer and that's great. You know, and she did like 100 jobs. She was cleaning, she did McDonald's. She was cleaning. She was an entrepreneur; she's started her own cleaning company. She went around knocking on people's houses giving them leaflets saying, "Hey, I live on my own." She was living her own 16 trying to pay rent. "I'm looking for work. I've got these aspirations and dreams to be a lawyer." And the community just came together and gave her work. So she was cleaning everyone's house and that's so great. You know, and that's what it is about being care-experienced, is that we are a different breed.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, that's so amazing. And you just can't help but smile at that because it's just a testimony to the drive and just the want just to change your life and to own it and really see where you can go in your future.

Chris Wild

If you've had the worst situation possible to be taken away from home. What else is there to be fearl[ful] of, so you won't become fear[ful]. There's nothing to be feared of, you know, as care-experienced people, the world is your oyster. It really is. There's nothing you can't achieve. Remember that.

Sareena – Drive Forward

And I know that you kind of said at the start. When it comes to being in care, you get to the point. So usually by 18, people start to exit the care system. And our young people call it the cliff's edge. You also said that as well. What is it about that point that suddenly there's more nothing than there was before? 

Chris Wild

It's a nebulous cloud, isn't it? There's nothing there. It's just the shadows and dust. It's where we fail to support young people and to get to 18 because first of all they are classified as adults. And that for me is totally wrong. That language is wrong and you're not an adult at 18, society thinks you are but you're not. It just seems to me there's a loophole within the law and society where these kids in particular just fall off the edge completely. And I work with so many people who leave care at 18, they go into supported accommodation, or they go into some kind of hostel or then having that support for two years on that pathway. We've got key workers, you've got a social worker, they all disappear at 18. You get a PA who's not committed. It's not that there's no personal connection there with a PA, it’s just that the support is reduced dramatically. You find yourself in the same situation, the same reason why you came into care and it's such a void. It's such a void. You know being on the Care Review, we've got to do something about 18 year olds leaving care and ending up in jail. 

I mean, some of the stats what I've been reading recently, like 48% of homeless people have been in the care sector. I don't know if these are the correct stats, but it's around about that. But 28% of inmates in jail have been through the care sector. I don't want to hear those kind of stats, that's no good. So when you start questioning how and why leaving care, you know, there's no guarantor for you to get an apartment. Landlords don't want to give you a house because you come from care. They want to save it for some working professionals who come from you know, affluent backgrounds. 

Again, getting a job, it's hard to get a job because you don't have qualifications and if you try and get an education, you've got to do five jobs to pay for your rent, and then you're tired to study. So your studies fail. We should be supporting all of this and we do a little bit but we don't. It's only like now you know, we talked about universities catching onto this. And well, we're going to help, we're going to support. 

I'm working with organisations now giving young people work experience, giving them jobs, apprenticeships, paying them and also paying their rent. This is what we should be doing to support these young people, the most vulnerable young people in our society. But when I worked in care, semi-independent care, I did a pathway where young people have two years, got them from nothing to be confident to have all the skills to get back in education. And then a social worker turns around and says, I'm taking them out of your care, because it's too expensive. It doesn't work and that's where, you know, the terminology care cliff comes in. Again, I still think we're a long way off, you know, kind of really solving that problem.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah. That leads us nicely onto the Independent Care Review. So what came from that review was like we need a “radical reset.”

Chris Wild 

Oh, absolutely. I was really honoured to be a part of the care review. I was really honoured to sit down and talk and really voice my concerns. I've been on the expert by experience board, which all of us have lived experience. You know, we had someone in foster care, we had someone from every sector of care, kinship care, etc. What was disheartening was that we worked hard for 15 months giving all this advice to civil servants and to Josh McAllister, I've got a lot of respect for Josh, he's a good person, but I felt when I read the final report, I read it before. If that makes sense to you. I felt [like] hang on a minute. You've given these recommendations. We've got to make sure that these recommendations are implemented, but the dialogue has got to change, that narrative got to change you've got to be a bit more bold and daring and I thought Josh would have been but unfortunately, when you do these kinds of things, you don't have the overall power.

Sareena – Drive Forward

No, because you've got so many bodies to appease to, and [make recommendations on] what will actually get put through.

Chris Wild

Yeah, and I felt it was important for me to have my name attached to that review to say, well, actually, I stood up and I spoke out. I didn't agree with everything and I didn't and that's what people don't understand. There was this massive backlash on social media about people like me getting involved in the care review where I've let down the care community because I've been compliant to government and stuff when that wasn't the case at all. 

I'd rather be involved and not be involved. You know, it was an opportunity for me to sit around a table and really voice and I am I'm very vocal. I go above and beyond you know, if I have to sit down with a politician and you know, just kind of take him out and show him the reality of what's going on in the streets. I will and that's what it takes. It takes some really bold action to make that kind of statement. And I think I did that. I think I represented the care community well in the care review. And I think we all did. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, it's difficult with a report like that, as you were saying, like, there's so many parties that are involved in trying to please everybody in a sense. So in that kind of work, you actually don't please anybody. But what Drive Forward was pleased at, was just the acknowledgement that we need more jobs. We need more jobs, we need more apprenticeships, we need like a minimum of 3,500 jobs or apprenticeships a year. You know, that's something that we're continually working on with our partners and that's what they're able to provide and we're always looking for new employers working with us all the time.

Chris Wild

Yeah and I totally agree with you. And I think it was great to be sat around that table and to you know, really voice that as well and everyone else to be saying the same thing saying, you know, we need more care leavers, universities, we need everybody involved in this. And that was what was powerful about being involved in that and those recommendations need to be implemented ASAP. We can't sit on them now, that's something that makes me nervous as well. It's like, that's great. When is that happening? Making sure that social workers are qualified for five years before they get complex cases and trying to stop that conveyor belt of social workers coming through young people's lives. Those kinds of recommendations are life saving. It's no good in five years. 

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, we need it now.

Chris Wild

It's imminent change now, and unfortunately, it's deflating because that report's just now deflated. It needs uplifting again, and that's where our young people need to get on board now and really start to form their own boards expert by experience board and you know, getting involved in government conversations and even now, I don't see it. Where is our young people's expert by experience boards sat at the table with government saying, "hey, come on, let’s implement these recommendations. This is our future. This is my future.” That's the arduous kind of journeys where we've got a fight. We do have to fight. And that's not fair for us because a lot of people don't have to fight.

Sareena – Drive Forward

You know, that's what we tried to do it Drive Forward we try to be the champion, but also just actually, you can do it and we'll be here to support you. We'll be here to help you with your CV to help give you the interview prep that you need that if you go for your first interview, you probably ask your parents what do I need to do or you know, what would you recommend but care-experienced people don't have that so we're trying to fill that gap to enable them to do what we already know what they're able to do. So what would you say to like employers or people who want to support in terms of providing those jobs?

Chris Wild

This is what I'd say to employers is, you don't want me knocking on your door and calling you out when you don't give people opportunities. And if you are going to give these people opportunities which we're going to make sure you are, you've got to support them. Nurture that you know, it's again, treat it as a protected characteristic. As you would with a disability although care-experienced people are not, they do have some form of disability it does tick every box we've got remember that, trauma does come in as mental health. It is some form of disability and care-experienced young people, I'd say 80% will experience all of that within their childhood. So let's try to treat it like that and support it. I want to see employees get on board with this. I want to see them really invest in young people from the care sector. 

I want to see them advertise it as well, you know, stop just doing it on the quiet. Get out there. I want to see more advertisement, I've been saying to Mark who's the CEO of The Children's Society. I said Mark, can we start doing some more commercials about young people becoming successful, about young people getting opportunities and jobs and holding people accountable? It's like the NHS, you know, they're starting this massive programme at the moment for 18 to 25 year olds. That's amazing.

Sareena – Drive Forward

And why wouldn't you?

Chris Wild 

Why would you want it? I meet some amazing people. I'm in awe of the talent. I'm in awe when I sit down with young people and they show me plans. Their business plans, “this is my business model and in 10 years from now, I'm going to be a millionaire.” And I think well, you probably are gonna be! So I just think I want to see a national campaign. I want to see a national campaign with every industry, every sector getting involved in this. Let's use mental health as a parallel, as an example. 

Let's start talking about care leavers. I want to see in all the schools, I want to see support. I'm gonna see employers only asking for, you know, going into universities and saying if you've got any care-experienced people here. I want to meet your care leavers, I want to see that championed. I want to see that out there. It's going to upset other sectors, but I don't care that's not my problem. My concern is care leavers. We are the underdog. We still are segregated and this is 2022. So if that upsets other sectors, other people, it's not my problem. I want to see care people thrive. And there's enough evidence out there to say they don't and they fail. And that's that's what we've got to hold on to as well.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Care-experienced young people, they want to do better. They want better for themselves. They want to be successful. They want everything like any other person would want.  And yet they aren't getting the support and they aren't being uplifted enough.

Chris Wild

But they will. This is what all this is about. You know, I said keep going back and keep reiterating this the revolution, there is a revolution and you know, any care-experienced person listening to this is really got to unfortunately, you're gonna have to fight harder than everyone else, than your peers. You're gonna have to fight harder. You've got that resilience to do it, really go out there and fight for your future because you deserve it.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Take a moment to soak that in. You deserve it. 

Chris Wild

You do. Yeah.

Sareena – Drive Forward

What is a piece of advice that you've received on your journey to who you are now that sticks with you?

Chris Wild

Don't lose your identity. I tried to get rid of my identity, I have tried to deny my past. Don't do that. That's your secret weapon. That's your ace. For many years, I was in denial of who I was, where I came from. And then one day I met a great person and they said, I don't believe you. I don't believe you. And they said, you know why you're not succeeding? Do you know why you're failing? I said, no, why am I failing? Why am I not succeeding? Because you pretend to be someone you're not. Who are you? This is who I am. This is where I came from. And somebody said to me use that, that's your tool. What a special tool to have, your past. Remember, some people don't have a past.

You know, I sit down with people now and I'm like, you know, it's like, oh my God, you've done so much. You've been through so much. How are you still smiling? Because why not, why shouldn't I smile? I own my trauma now. I own my past, it belongs to me. This is my life. I'm proud to say yes, my dad died at 11, yes, I ended up in a children's home, yes, I've been through hell as a child. My childhood was taken from me, it was ripped apart from me, but I made it through. I was given an opportunity, somebody believed in me. So hold on to your identity, because that's your ace card. You're going to use it, you're going to need it. Again, you know, we've got to talk about employment. The most cliche question any employer will ask you is "tell me a time when you've really had to work hard or struggle, or show me a time when you've used resilience."

You want to talk about resilience?

Sareena – Drive Forward

Okay, where do I start?

Chris Wild

You know, people who don't come from our background, they find eight hours hard. I've had three jobs where I slept two hours a night. I really did. I slept two hours a night and I got up to go to the fish shop to peel potatoes. After the potatoes, I went to the Acapulco nightclub to be a glass collector then I'd come home and try and read a little bit of a book to kind of educate myself. I've had two hours sleep a night, I cried most nights, I was hungry. It was tired. So don't talk to me about resilience! So every job I go into now, I put my heart and soul into it and that's why I say don't lose your identity that's your ace. That's your tool. Hold on to it.

Sareena – Drive Forward

That is absolutely amazing. And Chris, I can't thank you enough for coming in today and just sharing you!

Chris Wild

Yeah, thank you. I say you know, I just want to give one last message to young people just you know like I said is that we are working hard to make sure you have a future and I will never ever stop fighting for young people. And I've got your back.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Yeah, that's incredible! And I just want to say a big thank you again.

Chris Wild

Thank you. Thank you to Drive Forward. You do some great work.

Sareena – Drive Forward

Thank you so much for listening. And if you've been inspired by anything you've heard today, either as a care-experienced young person looking to get involved with our services, a potential new partner or looking to give more opportunities or simply want to support our work, head on over to driveforwardfoundation.org where you'll find all that and more. 

We are Drive Forward Foundation, momentum made by you.